We join Baltimoreans in mourning the petira of our beloved Rabbi Diskind, zt”l. Much has been said – much will be continue to be said – about his warmth, his kindness, and his profound contribution to the education of our girls. In his memory, we reprint this interview. Although it appeared 22 years ago, in 1991, the wisdom of Rabbi Diskind’s words still apply.
What could be more appropriate on a Friday morning than the aroma of Shabbos that greeted me at the home of Rabbi and Mrs. Hirsch Diskind. The table was set, the candles ready. The house was spotless, and a brilliant autumn sun caressed the old-fashioned, uncluttered furnishings, family pictures, and sefarim. The ambiance of the house testified to a life of simplicity and calm. Rabbi Diskind, who was principal of Bais Yaakov from 1952 to 1987, welcomed me with a smile to match the sunlight. Our conversation ranged from the early days of Bais Yaakov to life in Yerushalayim, where the Diskinds live most of the time, as well as some of the wisdom he has accumulated along the way.
Where What When: Rabbi Diskind, will you tell us about your family and early education?
Rabbi Diskind: I grew up in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn. I was blessed with very wonderful parents. My father was a talmid chacham. At times, he was a business man, but mostly he was a working man. He came to this country from Latvia in 1905, when he was 21 years old. Before he left Europe, he received kabbala for shechita, because he did not expect to be able to eat meat in America, which was known as the “treife land.” However, he did find kosher meat, so he never practiced shechita. My mother came from Poland in 1903 to get away from the pogroms and bad economic conditions. She was a bright woman with an extremely logical mind. For many years, she wrote a popular reader participation column giving advice on any topic. She wrote it for the Americaner, a Yiddish weekly, under the pen name of Bella Brin. She was also an organizer and president of many organizations. As for my education, I attended Chaim Berlin elementary school. Fortunately, the mesifta was founded when I was the right age, and I was a member of the pioneering class. I went through high school and attended bais medrash until I received semicha. I learned an additional year after receiving semicha.
WWW: How did you decide to go into chinuch (Jewish education)?
RD: I decided this under the influence of my rebbe, Harav Hutner, zt”l. In fact, many of my colleagues set their goals on harbatzas (spreading) Torah and entered the field of chinuch.
WWW: Did Chaim Berklin have any special hashkafa (outlook) in chinuch work?
RD: Chaim Berlin emphasized derech hamussar, which placed major importance on bain adam lechavero, concern for the other person, being pleasant. A classic example would be the story of Rabbi Yisroel Salanter, zt”l, who met a friend who usually greeted him in a very friendly manner. On one occasion, around Rosh Hashana time, the friend was very solemn. Rab Salanter spoke to his friend, asking, “Do I have to suffer because you are doing teshuva?”
WWW: I think everyone who has dealt with you would agree that you personify this trait. To what do you attribute your patience, equanimity, and pleasant disposition? How can others acquire these qualities?
RD: To the extent that this is true about me, I think these traits came by virtue of my parents’ personalities. As for others, if you realize that people act toward you only in reaction to how you act to them, that would suffice as motivation to come across pleasantly to people. In general, a person is a product of his habits. Habits come from what you are, but also, you are the product of your habits. If you act pleasantly, you become that.
WWW: That sounds like a modern school of psychology.
RD: It is a very old philosophy. The Sefer Hachinuch says, “A person in influenced by his actions.”
WWW: When did you come to Bais
Yaakov?
RD: I took the job of principal of Bais Yaakov in 1952. Before that, I spent three years as principal of the Chofetz Chaim day school and afternoon Hebrew School, Etz Chaim, in Cincinnati.
WWW: What was Bais Yaakov like in the early days, and how it is different now?
RD: When I came to Bais Yaakov, there were 130 girls. The school went through ninth grade. We held afternoon and Sunday morning Hebrew classes for our graduates, who mostly attended Western High School, a public girls high school. Two thirds of the student body came from non-observant homes. In the spirit of the prevailing culture, children then were much more respectful. Parents were generally much more supportive and appreciative of teachers and school. Nowadays, many parents are aggressive and critical.
WWW: Why is that?
RD: It is because the generation of the 60s and 70s adopted a new culture, throwing off any semblance of discipline and authority, and eventually they became the parents of today’s children. We went through a real cultural revolution.
WWW: How did you cope with that?
RD: We had to constantly adjust to the new situation. We maintained our standards, but to be sure, we did not exist in a vacuum. It became necessary, more than before, for us to develop the concept of derech eretz (respect). Previously, this was the realm of the home.
WWW: Are the teachers of the same quality as those in the past?
RD: If anything, they are better prepared and as dedicated as they were then. There is just a different atmosphere. Today, a child starting preschool is already disposed to think of school as an ordeal and not as a place to be happy. It takes courage for a child to say she’s happy in school.
WWW: Why did Bais Yaakov choose as its motto, “Educating the Jewish mothers of tomorrow”?
RD: The Divine plan is for the Jewish daughter to be the integral partner responsible for the perpetuation of Torah and klal Yisrael. The transmitting of our inheritance to our posterity is completely in the hands of the Jewish mother. This involves middos tovos (good character), yiras Shamayim (fear of Heaven), and ahavas haTorah (love of the Torah). A normal klal Yisrael requires the unique Jewish mother to develop these qualities in her children. A chinuch program for our daughters must be geared toward preparing them for the position of that unique Jewish mother.
WWW: Has Bais Yaakov been successful?
RD: Success is never ultimate, but we have enjoyed a considerable measure of success.
WWW: Should girls go to college?
RD: It is not an automatic requirement for developing the quality of a bas Yisrael. To be sure, the atmosphere on college campuses is a most undesirable influence. On the practical level, however, there are situations that may require or warrant a college education to enhance one’s earning power, etc.
Working, for a mother, is not an ideal situation, but if she has to work, college can be helpful in pursuing a parnassa and perhaps being able to work fewer hours.
WWW: Many mothers today are working out of necessity. Are you concerned about this trend? How is it affecting the children?
RD: This is a source of great concern, and there is no question that it plays a role in the problems of children growing up healthfully and normally. The economic situation in America forces this situation, but it is definitely not what Hashem really intended. A child growing up in this condition is somewhat akin to an orphan who grows up without the constant input, contact, and communication with the parent.
WWW: Do you see a solution?
RD: The solution to this is biyas hamashiach (coming of the Messiah), which, in this regard, means a radical review of attitudes and priorities. People do not need material wealth and comfort in order to be content. “Who is happy? He who is content with his lot.” (Pirkei Avos). Enjoyment of life is a state of mind. When Mashiach comes, we will be happy with the real values of life. We will not need all the comforts which we today consider absolutely necessary. And once again, a family will be able to live on a single salary.
I’ll give you an example. People think a telephone is an absolute necessity, but up to a few years ago, in Yerushalayim, the majority of people didn’t have one and were fine. One of my pet peeves is Americans moving to Yerushalayim and bringing an American standard of living with them. We are denying Yerushalmis of their beautiful tradition of living extremely meaningful and content lives while subsisting on what we would consider below-normal means. In their circles, that was sufficient. But if everyone else lives on a higher standard, a simpler lifestyle becomes very difficult to maintain.
WWW: Don’t you think a telephone and car, even two cars, are necessities today?
RD: Yes. Today, everyone really needs more material things. Some need more and some less, but everyone has more than people dreamed of in the past. And if someone should try to live a more ideal and meaningful life, it is very difficult in the middle of a foreign culture. This is a part of galus (exile). We are not living by our standards; our standards are imposed on us by a foreign society.
WWW: Is it wrong to strive for wealth, and alternatively, is poverty a requirement for a meaningful life?
RD: No. in the Rosh Chodesh benching, we ask for a life of “wealth and honor,” but this must be balanced with a prayer for yiras Shamayim. If a person is strong in yiras Shamayim and middos, then wealth may be an asset. If he is not, then wealth will be a curse. According to Mesillas Yesharom, every station in life is a test, or nisayon: poverty as well as wealth. The nisayon of poverty is in not lying and stealing or becoming bitter. The nisayon of wealth is not becoming conceited, not looking down on others, rather, being helpful and not kicking off the burden of Hashem. If anything, wealth is a greater nisayon. The main thing is to maintain control of our lives, regardless of station, to know our priorities and what really is required of us.
WWW: Do the people in Eretz Yisrael live more meaningful lives?
RD: Not overall, but there a circles where they do live more meaningful lives than is common here. There are Americans in those circles, too, who are absolutely able to live in an atmosphere of spiritual values, to the extent that their economic situation nearly has no bearing on the meaningfulness of their lives. If they happen to be rich, they enjoy it, but that’s not their goal in life. They don’t’ run to fill up a wardrobe. Why does anyone need more than one Shabbos outfit and two weekday outfits? People need more clothing only because the next person has it. It has nothing to do with the content of life.
WWW: I heard that you expressed this thought to the Bais Yaakov girls in one of your “Jerusalem to Jerusalem” tape programs.
RD: I spoke to the girls from Yerushalayim, before Yom Kippur, and sneaked this into my talk. I told them that during the Bais Yaakov sleepover Shabbos, most girls brought more than one outfit. However, one girl in a group of friends only had one outfit. In deference to her, everyone else in the group, who had more than one outfit, did not make use of it. I told them that this was a source of pride to me; that “Yerushalayim of America” has something in common with Yerushalayim Ir Hakodesh.
WWW: Rabbi Diskind, you were blessed to have had one of the great men of our generation, Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky, zt”l, as a father-in-law. What was the most important thing you learned from him?
RD: To have learned is not necessarily to have achieved. However, to be exposed to certain aspects of a Torah personality is to at least be motivated to try to develop his traits. The trait that made the biggest impression on me was his degree of objectivity, which is a part of his midda of emes (truthfulness). To the extent that it is humanly possible to detach one’s self from one’s own personal interests in considering a situation, he accomplished that.
WWW: Do you mean in human relations?
RD: Yes. People would come to him for advice, and he would offer that advice completely and totally in the light of that person’s interest. For example, Rabbi Paperman was sought after, many years ago, for the position of rabbi of Shearith Israel. At the time he was a member of the administration of Telshe Yeshiva. My father-in-law had a very special interest in the welfare and growth of the Baltimore Jewish community and was very anxious for Rabbi Paperman to accept that position, but Rabbi Paperman asked his advice, and he advised him against it, because he felt it would not be in his personal best interest. It was the opposite with Rabbi Schwab, who was the incumbent rabbi. He asked my father-in-law whether he should accept the position in the Washington Heights community. My father-in-law would have liked him to stay in Baltimore, but he advised him to accept the position in Washington Heights.
My father-in-law had a very keen understanding in matters of chinuch, and we, in Bais Yaakov, of course took very much advantage of his genius in that field.
WWW: What was Rabbi Kamenetsky’s influence on Bais Yaakov of Baltimore?
RD: We used to ask him how to handle many specific incidents and situations involving individual students. And, of course, there were matters of policy. When we developed our high school, for example, and were accepting out-of-town students, he strongly advised against opening a dormitory. He considered it a necessity for an adolescent girl to live in the atmosphere of a wholesome Jewish family, rather than in a regimented type of situation that would be required in a dormitory. She particularly needed the experience of a warm, personal relationship of the woman in the home.
Another question that came up concerned bar mitzva. There was pressure on the part of some individuals in the Ladies’ Auxiliary, who pushed for a celebration of the students’ bas mitzvas. This was something which was generally not celebrated in Orthodox religious circles at that time. My personal reaction was a negative one, but once the question had risen, it was necessary for me to have an authoritative position on this matter. I presented the question to my fatherin-law, because our ladies would not challenge a position of Rabbi Kamenetsky. To my surprise, he did not merely approve of it, he very strongly encouraged it, maintaining that it is an important part of chinuch for a girl to recognize the significance of her becoming a bas mitzva. To be sure, he qualified that the celebration be in good Jewish taste. The present form of our bnos mitzva dinner was the result of specific deliberations that we had at that time.
When our school grew to the point where we had parallel classes in each grade, some parents wished to separate the classes on the basis of religious observance. My father-in-law said that, just as a parent is not allowed to differentiate among children, so, too, the school may not differentiate. Every girl must be given an equal education and an equal chance to reach the top. He believed that this would ultimately be to the benefit of all the girls. And that is the way it indeed worked out.
WWW: Is this one of the factors that contributed to the success of Bais Yaakov as a community-wide school?
RD: We have always catered to the whole community. Our admission has never been restrictive. One of the unique aspects of our school is that our graduates, because of their exposure to girls from many different backgrounds, generally bear a greater sense of responsibility towards peers of less observant standards – much greater than nearly any other Bais Yaakov in the country. This is, to a great extent, thanks to the personality of Rabbi Steinberg, zt”l, the high school principal. Many of the principles the school had concerning mixing religious with less religious backgrounds would have been very difficult to carry out with a lesser administrator than Rabbi Steinberg. A school is not made up merely of rules and guidelines. Much beyond that, it gains its personality from the nature of the person who runs the school day to day. Rabbi Steinberg’s keen insight in matters of education and the personality of the individual student, and his profound ahavas Yisrael are the qualities that made our rules and guidelines come to life. Our school, per se, and nearly every individual graduate, really represents a tribute to Rabbi Steinberg.
WWW: Thank you, Rabbi Diskind, for an enlightening interview.ӉѠ
